John Niland (00:00)
Welcome to Self Worth in Times of Chaos. And on this podcast to date, we've had quite a few conversations talking about health and how health events of one kind or another can bring chaos into our lives. But sometimes it's not just our health, it can be the health of a family member. My guest today is Catie Young. Catie works in strategic communications as an independent professional, and that's exactly what happened to Catie.
Catie, welcome to the podcast.
Catie Young (00:29)
Thanks so much, John. It's a pleasure to be here.
John Niland (00:33)
So do you want to tell us what ⁓ life's been like over the last couple of years?
Catie Young (00:39)
the last couple of years have been very busy ones. ⁓ I have a family with three kids and a loving husband. ⁓ And I work and am a main contributor to the family income as women are in these days. ⁓ And yeah, my husband
had ⁓ a chronic illness ⁓ and we were living with that and it was a part of our lives. We'd become quite used to that. And then a year ago, he was then diagnosed with another form, another chronic illness that incurred quite a lot of heavy treatment and also an operation. So, yeah, life has been extremely busy ⁓ and also making room for
⁓ a curved ball if you like from life that has taken up quite a bit of space in this last year.
John Niland (01:46)
So throughout that time you've been juggling work, you've been juggling family, you've been juggling the treatment ⁓ of your husband. What was that like for you?
Catie Young (01:59)
I think going through it and the treatment period and the very intensive care that one receives or that my husband received during that period, you moved into, I moved into a very active mode where I was dealing with things day by day very actively and there was a lot of action going on as well as the family, a dog and
⁓ That was easy, if you like, because it was very clear what needed to be done. ⁓ The days were full and I was working at the same time. The fact that he's come through it is amazing and we're on the other side of all of the treatment. But it's really now in these last few months where the action has ⁓
lessened that I realised and I realised how much we went through and ⁓ how much energy and activity, chaos, if you like, came into our lives. And yeah, it's a period almost like ⁓ grieving where you maybe lose somebody or something has happened and you go through a period of dealing with that much more than during the active period.
that makes sense.
John Niland (03:27)
Indeed.
Just what I was thinking. In fact, ⁓ as you were describing action mode and then the delayed effect, I was reminded of an earlier conversation on this show ⁓ with Amy Moser, who sadly lost her partner quite suddenly, and she described exactly the same dynamic of being in, you know, project manager mode almost ⁓ during the crisis and then only afterwards does the full impact
come home to roost. How is that landing with you?
Catie Young (04:02)
have some good days and other more difficult days I think ⁓ emotionally
feeling what's happened and understanding the gravity of, ⁓ yeah, like you said with the last person you were spoken of, I don't know her, but when there is the possibility of losing somebody and I think that underlying ⁓ possibility is always there. And now in this more
relaxed period if you like. I'm letting the emotion go in terms of the gravity of that situation. So some days are very difficult and then I go through that and then it's sort of washed through me and almost cleansed if you like and then I'm moving on. ⁓
John Niland (05:04)
Yeah. And
a as you go through that, ⁓ how is your relationship with yourself evolving?
Catie Young (05:18)
There I think I take on habits of...
periods of stress that I've had through my life and I...
go through periods where I ignore myself and then I realized that I can't do that and that I need to ⁓ give myself grace and recognize ⁓ how important I am, how important my own health is and my own feelings of self-value that I really...
ensure that I take time to.
take care of myself as well. Yeah.
John Niland (06:12)
Yeah. So an important strand there about self care.
Catie Young (06:17)
Exactly. Yeah. Which I think for an independent person is one of the most difficult things to, or for me has been one of the most difficult things to learn that that's actually a part of the job is self care. No matter what's happening. If you have a, it ensures that if life does throw you a curved ball, like it has for me, that you have a good basis upon which you can maintain your own
John Niland (06:19)
I mean
Catie Young (06:46)
health and well-being.
John Niland (06:47)
So why is that particularly important for independents
Catie Young (06:53)
It's particularly important for independents because we are everything in our business. yes, we may have support and help in, in accountants and other people that support us, but we are the sales person. We're the commercial lead. We're the marketing director. We're also the operational person who is actually delivering with the clients. We're
⁓ doing the client relationships. ⁓ and then we need to make sure that the cashflow is moving and that we're getting our invoices out and in. So for independence, it's particularly important because if something happens to us, then our business is actually no longer, it doesn't exist anymore.
John Niland (07:47)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's existential. Yeah.
Catie Young (07:52)
So
it's not like an office situation where you have people who are there who pick up Slack for you.
John Niland (08:00)
Yeah, indeed. Quite important. And as we're just been illustrating, it's not just when it happens our own health, but also the health of a family member. The the show must still go on as far as work is concerned. ⁓ let's talk about work for a second. during a time of crisis like that, what does work mean to you?
Is it just another source of stress or i can it also be ⁓ a source of stability?
Catie Young (08:35)
No, I think definitely it's a source of stability. It allows you to have a space that is yours outside of the other chaotic pieces that are happening. ⁓ It's a place that is an anchor that you can come back to and clear your head if you want and just be in the work and be delivering for the work.
Yeah, so it definitely adds a great deal of stability.
John Niland (09:10)
it strikes me that for many people going through chaos, ⁓ as long as they still have work, then that is a great anchor and a great ⁓ anchor even for identity as as much as for anything else.
Catie Young (09:24)
And on that note, as an independent person, so much of the work is looking for work. It is doing your marketing. I have a newsletter, a webinar, I've built a structure that allows me to keep in contact with people. And I think as an independent, if you don't have that basis of your business,
running, then the client if and when and it does the client work sometimes stops and you have a period where you are in between projects and to be able to make that bridge and not be completely not to fall into the chaos and feel very despondent and where your self-worth is then completely reliant on that client.
work on, which is obviously so important for a business, but at the same time, the marketing, etc. again.
John Niland (10:32)
what's coming out is the importance of structure of of one kind or another in during times of chaos. That for for as you say, for an independent, if the independent doesn't have that structure and doesn't have that process or routine or whatever of ⁓ getting clients and marketing, etc., ⁓ then there is even more chaos as a as a result. very clear, very clear message.
So let's talk a little about the work you do, ⁓ since we are talking about work. ⁓ tell us a little bit more about ⁓ what indeed you do as a communications expert.
Catie Young (11:11)
Sure. ⁓ As a communication expert, I bring strategy, ⁓ I bring structure into people's work. Communications for me is an amazing tool for people to gain clarity about what they do so that they can communicate and connect with other people so that they can build businesses, ⁓ move forward.
read subjectives. I think often when people hear the words communication, they like, it's difficult to, to see how broad it is because they want to put it into the public relations or press box. But for me as a communication professional and somebody who's worked in, the field for 30 years after studying journalism,
I see it really as a touch point in all aspects of business because it has such a role to leverage how people move forward and how they understand what has to be done in a business and ⁓ how they fit in the overall structure of an organization.
John Niland (12:34)
Mm-hmm. Now your field of communications has been one of those fields most impacted by the chaos around AI. what's your take on that?
Catie Young (12:47)
Yeah, I think AI is an incredible, I don't know if we can call it a tool. It's almost a coworker now, somebody who can be brought into your team. ⁓ I think we're calling them a they AI. That was the discussion that I had with a group of people. And they are for an independent person. It's great to have.
⁓ aspiring partner and somebody that I can go to and ⁓ create my drafts and work with them to make it even better. I think as a creative person and in communication, ⁓ what I've experienced, it's very important that you start from your knowledge and experience to create and then move into gaining ⁓
input from AI.
But AI is also very vast. So for me, what I understand as AI might be different from somebody who is working in ⁓ IT, for example. Obviously, my AI window is ⁓ content creation tools.
John Niland (13:59)
Right.
What would you say to a young professional going into communications at the moment? ⁓ and I ask because ⁓ I know quite a few people who are in career transition in earlier life, ⁓ perhaps leaving a sector like academia, which in itself has its own crises plural, ⁓ and at least some of them will be looking at ⁓ communications as a as a potential ⁓ next chapter. What would you say to them?
Catie Young (14:38)
I would say stay curious, stay up to date with what is coming next and become very good at one particular communication tool. The communications today is so very vast. think
Also for a new generation, social media is communication, but it's not because communication is so much more than that. It's also the face to face. It's the ability to interact with people. It's building relationships, building connections, ⁓ being able to know what your key messages are and bring them across to the person opposite you. ⁓ So
What do I want to say that you need to have understand the strategy and the structure, speak to the business people that you're working for to understand how your, what you're communicating fits into their business objectives. And then in terms of what I said before, in knowing particularly well one tool, for example, I think that if you want to be good at
in social media, you need to pick one tool where you understand that social media really very well. But that, think, also requires daily involvement with that platform because the platforms are always evolving and the algorithms are updating and new rules come out
John Niland (16:27)
Well, I think we need to park discussion of communication there for today. If anyone is interested in this topic, or indeed any companies are interested in ⁓ the future of the communications function, ⁓ Catie runs a fantastic series of webinars ⁓ and ⁓ we'll put that in the show notes so you can find out more. Coming back to yourself, Catie, and the the past couple of years, ⁓ what lessons have you learned from it?
Catie Young (16:58)
I have in the last few years, I've really learned the essential nature of planning. I as an independent, I in my early years of independence, I would move from really from client work, very, very busy, delivering very well, ensuring everything is of the highest quality. And then
Once the client work would diminish, I would start thinking about my marketing. And ⁓ what I've learned now in the last couple of years is really making the marketing a part of the work as along with the self care so that you plan well and you ensure that that really becomes a part of weekly rhythm and weekly ⁓
weekly plans and habits.
John Niland (17:59)
I'm savouring the fact that while we're talking about chaos, what you're emphasizing is the importance of planning. You know, and I'm just savoring that paradox at the moment as we come to a close, that in times of chaos, perhaps it's more important rather than less important to plan and to have that weekly rhythm of planning you've just described.
Why might that be true?
Catie Young (18:31)
think we all live very complex and interesting lives as Western professionals that I am. We do a lot and we have a lot of possibilities. We have our private lives and we have our work lives. And also as an independent person, you're not walking into an office where you have a group of people and you have a boss.
telling you, okay, this is what we're going to be doing and this is our priority this week. So I think putting together this personal and then so as you're as an independent, you have to manage your time and you have to mix more personal and professional because you are the manager of your own time. And in the past, I would know pretty well what I had to do, but I would arrive on Monday.
wanting to do everything and then doing nothing and realizing that having this plan that gave me a pretty you know plus or minus idea of what I wanted to do on Monday just ⁓ uplifts my week because I arrive and I open my diary I also do this very viscerally I'm a writer and I love
John Niland (19:49)
Hmm.
Catie Young (19:57)
pencils. So I write my diary out in pencil and I really map my week like that. And it's become really an essential part of what I do because it, yeah, as you say, it really cuts through the chaos and allows you to focus and make priorities.
John Niland (20:22)
Indeed. And ⁓ looking at this almost through an identity lens, it's sounds like you're self-authoring your own structure. and as we go into the future where more and more people will have portfolio careers and will have very different careers where external structures will probably not be provided.
⁓ as we come to a close today I'm left wondering if indeed that ability to ⁓ not just for ⁓ for independence but for everybody, that ability to self author our own structure to the week may well become ⁓ one of the key insights in this podcast series. Catie, thanks so much for joining me today and ⁓ wish you well and wish you n wishing your husband well in his continuing recovery.
Catie Young (21:19)
Thank you so much, John. It's a real pleasure to be here with you today.
