From war to motherhood, with Viktoriya Kravchenko

Summary

In this episode, Viktoriya Kravchenko shares her experiences of navigating life amidst the chaos of war, immigration, and motherhood. She reflects on the impact of the Russian invasion of Ukraine on her life, the challenges of survivor's guilt and the journey of building resilience through multiple pillars of support. Viktoriya discusses her transition into motherhood in a foreign country and her aspirations for the future, emphasizing the importance of self-relationship and daring to be visible, for personal and professional growth.

Takeaways / Quotes

• Our world changed overnight.
• War is a big disruptor, definitely.
• I had this guilt of being a survivor for a long time.
• I want people to be sincere to themselves.
• I believe that we are going to live much longer.
• I do not want to be the perfect mom.
• It was a total destruction of me.
• I must give a lot. I must do more and more.
• I was crying every night.
• I have to be very attentive to my body.

Chapters
00:00  The Impact of War on Personal Lives
07:43  Evolving relationship with self
09:33  Survivors’ guilt
13:59  Motherhood in a new country
16:48  Lessons from this time of chaos
20:51  Conversations with the Ego

Keywords

war, immigration, survivor's guilt, motherhood, resilience, personal growth, mental health, Ukraine, self-worth, visibility

Guest Contact Details:
Viktoriya can be contacted on viktoriya.kravchenko@gmail.com

Thanks to Jacopo Lazzaretti for the intro/outro music:  https://jacopolazzaretti.bandcamp.com/album/secret-love

For all contact details (including our Associates) and useful self-worth resources, see www.SelfWorthAcademy.com

Transcript

John Niland (00:00)

Welcome to Self-Worth in Times of Chaos. in the episodes so far, we've heard many different types of chaos, work chaos, relationship chaos, bereavement, ⁓ many different flavors and varieties of chaos. But there is one that is probably more decimating than anything else, and that's the chaos caused by war, where your entire world changes overnight. My guest today has been through exactly that. Welcome to Victoria Kravchenko.

Viktoriya Kravchenko (00:31)

Hi John, nice to meet you online now. Pleasure.

John Niland (00:37)

So, ⁓ I think we all know the backstory, at least from the news we know the backstory with the Russian invasion of Ukraine some four years ago now. How did it impact you?

Viktoriya Kravchenko (00:53)

Yeah, my world changed overnight, we should say. ⁓ Me and my husband has a habit those times to spend several hours, several months in winter in Egypt, just to enjoy better weather and the sea. And so we've been to Egypt for quite a time. And in the morning of February 24th, I've got a message from my sister.

Tell me please, what are the papers that I should take with me? It started. So that was the first phrase and the first word I've got. ⁓ Definitely the life changed and actually I do not wish anyone to never try this because it's really another experience, but it changes my mindset I would say. Interesting that

⁓ You can imagine that I lived near to Kiev and in the city like close to Butchia. So it was definitely occupied. The front line stopped kind of one kilometer from my apartment, from my house. So in February, I definitely never knew that anything gonna be left. So we decided that we have two suitcases and one monitor. My husband works for IT. So we have something with us like.

for swimming suits, some snorkeling equipment, everything that we need in February, anywhere, in any country. And then we decided that if we have this and we can build our life from scratch somewhere else, then we can definitely do it again in our home country when the time allows. ⁓ Moreover, I'm originally from Mariupol, so I was double hit and like double lucky, fortunate enough to be.

safe and I managed to get my parents from Maripol a couple of years before the war. So it was really like a lot of fortunate events in our life. So I still believe that I need to take most of it. You know, then my life that I need to do something. I need to somehow not only reinvent yourself or reinvent myself, but also to do something else. And thus we started new chapter.

So war is a big disruptor, definitely. Then immigration is anyway, despite the cases why you do this, immigration is also very, very strong change of everything. And I was lucky the third time I got a baby. I became first time mom already in immigration at 43, which is also not as usual here in Portugal.

So when I was pregnant, we had a joke with my husband that, okay, there are four biggest traumas according to some psychologists. I don't know which one, but anyway, that it is war, immigration, baby, divorce. And we decided that now we cannot afford any divorce because we don't have enough nervous cells to do this. And we managed to keep the marriage.

John Niland (04:07)

Well, I see your sense of humor is definitely intact, but I'm sure there were many times, particularly in the early days of the war, the early months of the war, when it was not at all funny. How were your family or friends affected?

Viktoriya Kravchenko (04:25)

⁓ I have quite close friends in Mariupol and when it was bombing I didn't have any news from them and part of my family is also there like my uncle and some cousins. Definitely I have many, let's say school friends or university friends with whom I do not in touch but I know they are there. For some of them I know that they are okay.

For some, I still don't know any news and I should admit that I still don't want to read the lists of the people killed because in my head, they are still alive, even if I haven't seen them for many, many years. My family was, my parents, because we live near Kiev and the city that again was almost occupied.

John Niland (05:10)

Wow. Yeah.

Viktoriya Kravchenko (05:19)

⁓ My parents, they used to live in Marupol for many years and definitely during the 2014, you know, when the invasion started, not the full scale, but the first part after Crimea occupation. And it was some also war actions near Marupol, a little bit in it. And so my parents were not afraid of any bombing because they used to hear the sounds. And my mom even ⁓ at that time, she already could like,

say which type of guns is this actually, which scares my dad, but anyway, she did this. And they didn't want to evacuate from Erpin, from the city where we live, because they say, ⁓ we heard this like five years ago, we are okay. And they managed to evacuate. It took us almost two weeks. At first it was to persuade my stepmother and she admitted that it's her. She was like,

how would I leave my home because of that? You know, it's like lady, then they...

John Niland (06:21)

What age was she when she first started?

Viktoriya Kravchenko (06:25)

She was 68.

John Niland (06:31)

Right. So let's just pause there for a second. At 68, somebody is facing the prospect of leaving their home where they've lived all their life.

Viktoriya Kravchenko (06:41)

Second time, second time. They left Marjupal when she was a little, a couple of years prior. Right. Then they, so they established, we bought an apartment, they lived. My mom was 68, my dad was 72, and they have to leave. And they left the apartment with a couple of rucksacks and a cat. No guarantee.

John Niland (07:10)

very aware that we're in a world of about 120 million refugees at the moment. And very often this is somebody who is in their 60s who is facing into that prospect. Like it really is breathtaking when you think of the scale on the impact of that. let's turn to you, Victoria. We've talked about your family a bit. Let's turn to your relationship with yourself. How did this evolve during

the war and the years since.

Viktoriya Kravchenko (07:43)

First, I face, it was not how to live in the country where we happen to be in Portugal. It was somehow manageable because my husband had a job. He worked for Americans for some time. mean, he was a stable and he had to work and all my business stopped definitely in Ukraine.

So my main task was to maintain my mindset, support whoever I want and to help my husband to earn for all of us actually. Because that time he was the only ⁓ donor person who had money. And then I had this guilt of survivor for a long time I had it.

And because it was really twice, I was lucky twice to be alive, not to be in my native city, or to be in the city where we were. And it made me feel horrible, I would say. And for almost two years, I've been working for consulting in donor organization to help Ukrainian companies to build their marketing sales and to do international sales. This is my

I used to do this as a business, so that was kind of my contribution. It was definitely some fees, but the fees and donor projects for Ukrainians are quite low, but I felt this necessity to give as much as I can. Since there were already power shortages in Ukraine, so I worked from 6.30 in the morning until 10 p.m., because I have ⁓ power all the time, and I was...

I worked more than 30 companies for this year, that was quite big.

John Niland (09:33)

Can I go back a step? You mentioned survivor's guilt and I'm aware that a lot of people listening might not either know that term or know what that's like. Can you explain that just a little bit more?

Viktoriya Kravchenko (09:45)

Yes, I will explain it from my perspective, okay? ⁓ Not from Wikipedia. It was the feeling of the time that if I'm not under the shelling, if I'm not in the underground, like keeping myself, if I'm not under these power shortages or I'm not under the guns, which a lot of people, then

I do not worth it. I do not worth being... ⁓ Maybe I should give something extra. Maybe it's need. It's not actually... It's not about that I need to be second Elon Musk. No, it's not about creating things. It's about that ⁓ if I was not there, then I must give a lot. I must... ⁓

do more and more more more. If I cannot do this with money, if I don't have that money, then I must do something else. I cannot enjoy the life so much. cannot, you know, when we came in Portugal, those times the museums were free for Ukrainians. I couldn't imagine I went, I just go to the museum. And actually I love museums and I love these palaces. I love many things, but

That time I was just, I didn't allow myself to do this. It's inside. And for me, it was like every Saturday we went to meeting in Prasidrosio, like cross-cross to Russia for like Ukrainians. We still do this, but now with the baby less often. But every Saturday, it was a feeling that if I can do this, I do. I was part of some PR activities about and many, many, many things.

but inside it's kind of, ⁓ I couldn't say it was a light or something else. It was something inside me that just ⁓ pushed me to do, ⁓ made me do. I just could not do it. I would actually what was okay for me that by this time I was not that young and I already have health routines because my body was not destroyed that much.

If it was like 20 years before, I would definitely have lost a lot of health because I worked a lot and it took me some time. needed to have a psychotherapist definitely. It's about self-worth also, but all my focus was literally turned into ⁓ not my future and not my past. It was kind of... ⁓

glued with those who are needed in Ukraine and with the community, all this stuff. I understood and I realized and I was aware that it's not like normal. It's good enough for all this stuff. I was, but I had that feeling. remember there were lots of consultants in some project and some of them were in Ukraine. And for example, they took two clients, you know, I took like five.

John Niland (13:07)

Right. Okay. So it's like a deficit inside that means you have to work, you have to contribute, you have to, you know, you cannot enjoy the museums whether they're free or not. There's this imperative of contributing to the bigger cause.

Viktoriya Kravchenko (13:29)

If there is some donation, I would help. If someone is searching for, let's say, ambulance cars in any country, I found any contact in procurement, in customs, in police in the UK, for example, someone who can help with some ambulance or all this stuff. I have a big network and it was like, so everything was on there. It was not on victory, know, like some everything for the victory. was not, it was...

to do as much as possible.

John Niland (13:59)

Yeah. For the collective survival. So let's fast forward a little bit to today. ⁓ In the meantime, you've become a mom. ⁓ that's, you know, you've become a mom to a little girl, as I know, who is living in another country right now in Portugal. What's that like? ⁓ You are both Ukrainian, but your little girl is growing up in Portugal. How does that feel?

Viktoriya Kravchenko (14:03)

Yep.

At first it was a big surprise. We were planning a baby, but there was no baby and we were healthy. Maybe I believe in destiny, but I believe that my kid will come to me. So it was my strong opinion about that. so she came. Portugal is very nice to...

elderly moms, not elderly, but the older woman, because in my country, I should say that maybe they would not tell me anything. mean, the doctors, but we would see this, know, ⁓ all this stuff from the nurses, from the doctors and a lot of extra things that they would make me do. And here it was not, only once I was told that, you know, we need to some tests, blood tests, because you're a little bit old.

just a little bit old and they shot it a little bit. Now what was our main task and still is ⁓ for Diana to manage the languages because it's like three already. We speak Ukrainian with her and also

⁓ She is in the school, okay, it's kindergarten, but it's school with bilingual one with English and Portuguese. We want her to speak Portuguese and English. Now she starts speaking three languages in total, but she understands three of them. It's okay. ⁓ And also I'm not that anxious mom. So many things were not that difficult and

I do not ask for in some chats about communities of anxious mums, it's not that case. this is it. I guess it's a lot to understand. For me, was, know, do I want her to be happy? Do I want me to be sane, Or do I want to be the Fat Man? I don't want to.

John Niland (16:48)

⁓ What have you learned from all of this? I mean, four years of extraordinary change. What has it taught you?

Viktoriya Kravchenko (16:55)

⁓

I would say that I always believe in some, I've never believed in one pillar that you can rely on yourself. I always believe there should be many things that I can rely on myself. It cannot be only profession or only family or whatever. And so all the time I was building these pillars for myself and before this. ⁓

War and immigration was very difficult and the baby was a total destruction of me. It's about the body, definitely. And it's about the understanding, which like, it was not on the first night, never, but first week when we were already home, I was crying every night with the feeling that, my God, before this, I could always like take my suitcase and move whenever I want.

with this man or with another or just on my own. It was always my way of, I did this very seldom, but I always have this right to do. And now the baby, it's not that. And for the body, when you're breastfeeding, it's really baby needs you and all this time it's like, where is my body, where I am, where is my sleep? And the baby does not add sense to my life, but she adds many senses in terms of

I looked at myself and many things differently, maybe under other angles. What was actually a good thing from my life besides all these routines that I try to keep, like nutrition or sports, all this just to be in some shape, some shape, not the ideal, but some, it was that I always loved studying. I always loved learning the things.

I have different skills, professions, methodologies, whatever. I recently calculated that I have up to 20 different professions from which I earned somehow or can earn, including yoga instructor, opal dancer, teacher, or whatever. know, many, many things. And remember the most difficult thing right now for me

is the talk to my ego.

⁓ Because all my imagination about immigration before, like many years, like 20, 10 years ago was from the experience of my corporate colleagues, for whom the company pays for their rent and all this stuff. And so they are welcomed as very often they are like managers or top managers. Okay, a lot of my colleagues moved to other countries, they were not like top managers, but they never tell me that it is quite a...

quite a challenge, I mean, in terms of money or planning or some of this stuff. So, and now when I used to be a top manager or like business owner or other things and during the COVID, for example, ⁓ my business was not that good, but I got an offer to be a CMEO, like chief marketing officer and some.

startup or some other stuff. mean, I was always not, ⁓ okay, not always, but for many years I was not just specialist, you know. And now when I again reinvent myself from many things, not reinvent, remake, so the ego was the main problem for me. I mean, my perception of myself, especially in professional things.

John Niland (20:51)

Well, yeah, that's really profound and it ties into the multiple pillars, know, not relying on any one pillar, not relying on any one thing, but being able to rely on multiple things. But it seems to also entail having this conversation with one's ego. What would you find yourself saying to your ego?

Viktoriya Kravchenko (21:09)

Yep.

I was at first I was just denying. I I must find a It was like a job maybe with some as a top manager. Okay, as a manager. And I was searching, it was like the salaries here are low, something else. And then I was just like, do I really want to...

put all my life, okay, a lot of my time, a lot of my life again to corporate career, which I quit many years ago and I actually don't want to get back. All my contracts were somehow part-time and all this like short term and just to get to the result and, or did some operations. And then I was asking myself a question, you know, there is always a question then when you want to be happy or you be right, yeah?

And so I always, and I now trying to talk to me, to my ego, to myself in terms of what are my goals, what I want and how I want it to do. And this is it. And it is a painful process. It is a process that there is, I'm not sure it's possible to do kind of one conversation.

Solve all the questions. ⁓

It is some process and a ladder maybe. what I also understand that this time, the time is changing, all this uncertainty. Even if I go and ask for like apply for a job, I mean the manager, whatever, it is again, it's again new.

And for me, for example, I decided to get a totally new, okay, not totally new, definitely part of myself, a part of my background and my professional experience is inside and is all connected. But I am doing some things which are not top manager things. Like I have two hands and one head and I do a lot with them.

John Niland (23:34)

A final question, partly because of time. ⁓ When you look at the future, what do see?

Viktoriya Kravchenko (23:46)

My future.

John Niland (23:47)

Hm-hm.

Viktoriya Kravchenko (23:49)

Wow.

have my strategic goal, which actually I get back to it when I have that eye.

I like creating and like building systems and this is how I do these things. And what I do, I want people to be sincere to themselves and dare to show themselves, dare to be visible. And one of my now, let's say career track, what I do now is helping people to produce and to be visible online.

It's not only social media, different things you can do. It is a lot about being there, not just can. We can do a lot of things, but to dare to do this, to dare become someone, to dare show yourself, to dare be whoever, teach your consultant or just an artist, whatever. So I see that I am developing this track as a producer.

help as a marketing professional with sales professional with me to build these systems to help people be visible in terms of not just, go and do two presentations. No, it's not like that. It's about showing themselves. It's like big part, my big idea, my, the things actually I've been doing for many years. And I also know a lot into AI.

into understanding how it can help and not help and how to use it as a tool, maybe as an assistant, not as a friend, not as someone big. It's just the tools how to use it. So, this is like my professional vision of myself. And one more thing, I believe that we, okay, I am from 1980, people from...

not only eighties, but eighties, nineties, you know, we are going to live much longer than our grandparents. And I believe that if I want and I want to be sane and full of energy, I have to be very attentive to my body, to my head, to my mind, to all these things and to the relationship to which I invest. And the first relationship I believe is the relationship with myself.

John Niland (26:31)

What a great note to close on, Victoria. Thanks so much for joining me today and sharing your ⁓ experience of courage and daring, as you put it, for anyone who is listening. Victoria's email and contact details will be in the show notes. Thanks for today.

Viktoriya Kravchenko (26:49)

Thank you.