Financial setbacks, with Anne Randerson

Summary  

In this insightful interview, Anne Randerson shares her experiences navigating the chaos caused by the US dollar's drop in value, the importance of self-worth in chaotic times and strategies to prevent burnout. She discusses her work in coaching, mindfulness, and spiritual direction, offering a practical perspective for maintaining resilience in uncertain times.

Takeaways

• Impact of currency fluctuations on independent professionals
• Strategies for managing anxiety and self-doubt during financial crises
• The role of mindfulness and creativity in resilience
• Burnout signs and prevention
• Recovery from burnout

Chapters
00:00  Impact of change in currency
01:46  Living with the ups and downs of revenue
04:35  Self-questioning
08:24  Burnout in the future
13:55  Early signs of burnout
17:45  Other parts of Anne's work, including spiritual direction

Keywords

self-worth, burnout prevention, mindfulness, coaching, spirituality, resilience, chaos management

Guest Contact Details:
Anne can be contacted by email at info@crossculturalhorizons.com or on her website https://crossculturalhorizons.com.  For spiritual direction, see https://evocativesoul.com 

Thanks to Jacopo Lazzaretti for the intro/outro music, see:  https://jacopolazzaretti.bandcamp.com/album/secret-love

For all contact details (including our Associates) and useful self-worth resources, see www.SelfWorthAcademy.com

Transcript

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John Niland (00:01)

Welcome to Self Worth in Times of Chaos. And as we know these days, much of the chaos can be caused by global and economic events. Today, I'm with Anne Randerson and Anne's entire business was disrupted by the drop in the dollar last year. Anne, welcome aboard.

Anne Randerson (00:21)

Thank you, John. Thank you so much for having me today.

John Niland (00:24)

So

what was this chaos caused by the drop in the value of the dollar?

Anne Randerson (00:29)

Well, as you know, things have been changing around the world recently, especially since last year, and the dollar has dropped. And I had many clients in the States. And so I live in Brussels, Belgium, and so they would pay me in euros. And the euros stayed strong, but the dollar hasn't. And so I found that there have been quite a few clients who'd rather not continue to work with me because it was so expensive for them, because of the dollar change.

John Niland (00:53)

Yeah, a simple thing like a currency change can really have a big impact. And what impact did that have on your coaching practice?

Anne Randerson (01:03)

Well, for me, I had more time, a little bit more time for myself, which is always nice and it's very good, but I was hoping to get more clients. And so it did cause some chaos and some disruption ⁓ in my lifestyle because I was just used to having the payments come in. And when there were fewer, I got a little bit worried about what should I do next?

John Niland (01:23)

Mmm, and how worried were you?

Anne Randerson (01:27)

You know, this isn't the first time in my life. know, I've worked for myself for many, years. So this has happened before. And usually I get creative and I find something else to do on the side. But in this case, it seemed like it was going to last for a while. So I thought, well, what can I do now? So I got anxious a little bit.

John Niland (01:43)

Yeah, yeah. Now, I guess many people listening to this will be independent or may well soon be independent depending on how their career planning goes. And of course, we have to live with the ups and downs of revenue, of income. most of us never know from one month to the next what the next month's revenue is going to be. How do you deal with that?

Anne Randerson (02:09)

Well, luckily I'm a mindfulness teacher as well. So mindfulness helps me a lot. So trying to stay in the moment and not worry too much about the future or worry too much about the past helps a lot. So I do some meditation in the morning. I do Qigong. I do yoga as well. So that's how it helps me kind of stay centered and not worry too much about the future. I also am creative. I do a lot of writing and I write books and I do art as well in the creativity aspect.

helps me as well to stay a little bit more centered and less worried about the future.

John Niland (02:43)

How does that creativity aspect help?

Anne Randerson (02:47)

Well, I think it just, it lets out a lot of stress actually. So for example, yesterday there was a podcast I was supposed to be listening to. I mean, supposed to. I love listening to podcasts and I'm always trying to keep up on things. And so I was listening to this really interesting podcast, but at the same time, rather than focusing just on the words, I started to draw and I do this a lot and I'll be drawing and it helps me learn actually, helps me retain the information and it also gets rid of some stress. And I just thought yesterday,

What was the best part of the day? And I think it was besides being with you, because I was on one of your webinars, which was wonderful. But that podcast, I could get more information in and retain it by drawing. And I also felt a lot less stressed.

John Niland (03:30)

Interesting.

Come back to the relationship with yourself during this time of anxiety, you know, when a few months ago the dollar dropped and load of clients disappeared because it was too expensive for them to pay your fees in, well, you wanted to receive in euro, I guess, so therefore the net effect was they were paying for an off-lock more. What happened to your relationship with yourself during this time of anxiety?

Anne Randerson (04:02)

Well, I think it's understandable. got worried about my future and I also started, there were little doubts in there saying, well, maybe it's my services, maybe it's something to do with that and it's not just the dollar. So I started thinking about these things and I think it's a combination of many things. Other people are worried about their income themselves and so they're worried, can they spend this money or not? Although it's very helpful, of course, to have a coach. I do transitions coaching and creative writing coaching, helping people write their books. But I also, think it was, I was worried.

my self-worth, felt like maybe I wasn't as important as I thought I was, which is actually probably a healthy thing to think. ⁓

John Niland (04:41)

Yeah. Now again, I'm sure this is something that many people will have direct experience of how when something happens, it's a redundancy or whether it's loss of income or whether it's just the normal ups and downs of revenue in independent life, this self questioning that kicks in often at three o'clock in the morning, you know, and other inconvenient times.

Self-questioning about our services, self-questioning about the value of what we do, self-questioning about our entitlement to do it, questioning about, you know, will I be able to do this in the future? What other questions do you come across?

Anne Randerson (05:27)

Well, those all hit home, John. Absolutely. I've been awake at three in the morning. Last night it was 3 42 in the morning. So I exactly, look at the clock every time. Oh, wow. And the cat loves it because I go downstairs and I'm having my hot chocolate with the cat and I get to pet her for an hour until I get, go back to sleep. But yeah, all of these things happen and I start to wonder, maybe I should change careers. Maybe I should do something else. Maybe I should just find a job.

John Niland (05:35)

approximately.

Anne Randerson (05:55)

So actually a few months ago, I started looking for a job here in Belgium. I had some interviews. They were all in Dutch though, in Dutch is my fifth language. It was not easy. But I did go through the interviews. And then at the end I realized I think I want to just keep working for myself because I do love coaching.

John Niland (06:13)

Why do you love coaching? What is it about coaching work in the way that you do it? Very often with people who are writing books and doing some creative writing. What is it about that that really speaks to you?

Anne Randerson (06:28)

I love this question. I just love the one-on-one and sometimes in groups as well, but especially the one-on-one, just being with somebody who has ideas or maybe doesn't have ideas yet, but wants to write a book or wants to write stories or wants to have a life transition. mean, the things are happening in their life and I want to help them. I can feel, I can really feel what they're going through. And I love to work with them and listen to them and just hold a space for them and see where it goes. ⁓

So giving them some insight perhaps that they might not see and allowing them to decide what they want to do next. There's sort of a transformation that comes along with that. And I just love the process.

John Niland (07:08)

are the typical challenges that they have? ⁓ You mentioned transition. What are the typical transitions and what's hard about that?

Anne Randerson (07:18)

Well, sometimes people come from other countries. In Belgium, we have people from other countries coming in quite a bit. And so they're not sure about the culture, the languages, how things work. Maybe it's career changes as well, or they're approaching retirement, or maybe they might have loss in their family or somebody is getting sick. And I help them with that as well. So there's a lot of challenges out there right now. And so just being with somebody and helping them understand maybe what's next or where they can go.

opportunities.

John Niland (07:50)

Looking ahead to the conscious of the times we're in and conscious that this podcast is about self-worth in times of chaos, ⁓ it's fairly obvious we're going to have more times of chaos. We're having it right now, this very week while we're talking about this. We almost certainly will have more of it.

How do you see those challenges developing? You know, the people who are navigating those transitions that you just mentioned. What does the future hold?

Anne Randerson (08:24)

Well, I'm quite concerned about burnout actually, because many people are experiencing so much stress in their work or looking for work or looking for something else in their lives that they're not sure what they need yet and just trying to stay afloat actually. So there are a lot of people experiencing burnout or just so much stress that they can't sleep at night and other things. And so I'm concerned about that more and more. There's statistics out there that there have been more and more every year, burnout since the last...

10, 20 years, I think. And of course, it's a term that's used quite lightly, but what I mean is really being unable to work, being unable to actually function sometimes, ⁓ exhaustion.

John Niland (09:04)

What are the first symptoms of that?

Anne Randerson (09:07)

Well, I think I'm not the expert yet, but I'm actually taking a course right now to become a certified burnout coach. So I'm very excited about this. And so that's actually what the podcast I was listening to was about that. But oftentimes it's not sleeping very well. It's oftentimes maybe wanting to be in the work, but it isn't always at work. It could be at home, it could be other things. But in the workplace, for example, wanting to work and be a perfectionist, doing the best that you can and letting other things go.

things that you love to do, or even not wanting to see your friends anymore because work has become so important and taking so much more time to do the work, putting in so much in your day that you can't sleep at night and you can't really function and exhaustion is another one.

John Niland (09:52)

And of course, as we know, burnout is a particular risk for conscientious people because conscientious people hold themselves to account even when nobody else is holding them to account. You know, they will be worrying about the quality of their work at three o'clock in the morning, whereas less conscientious people are not even thinking about work till they get there. So it is, as we know, the curse of the conscientious.

These are always the people most at risk. ⁓ I'm very interested in this topic of burnout because I've had two, two burnouts in the course of my working life. Well, one complete burnout and then one near burnout to be fair. And for me, all the things you just described were very real. The inability to sleep, the inability to switch off.

And the day that I knew I was really in trouble is when I'm looking at a spreadsheet and I just cannot take in what I'm looking at. It was the weirdest feeling. know, this utter inability to concentrate on something perfectly simple in front of me. ⁓ Not a state I ever want to go back to. If we have more and more burnout, what effects will that have?

Anne Randerson (11:16)

Well, on society, will really be not very helpful for society because society functions on people who are actually doing their jobs and working and helping each other. sometimes when you're in burnout, things get very narrow and focused and you're really working on your work or really working on whatever you're doing. Or sometimes you can't do anything anymore and you really do need to relax. so I think it's going to have a major effect on society, on productivity and how people are feeling and relationships as well.

your relationships, your home, your job, the whole thing. So it's taking it very, very seriously. I think like the health services sector, they know about this and they're doing what they can, but maybe more funding could be very helpful to get more people out there helping people that are in this state. Also, I'm just saying I also was near burnout quite a few times. And now that I'm taking this course, I'm realizing that I was very close to it many times. And so it kind of touches home.

And that's why I want to help people so much in this way.

John Niland (12:15)

Well, and preventing it, right? I mean, if we can prevent burnout, it takes weeks and months to recover from burnout. years. Or years, indeed. And one of the things I've noticed in my own work with people with burnout is the fear of burnout stays with them afterwards. So even when they do come back, there is this nervousness, there is this fear of having another burnout. So anything we can do to prevent burnout has to be good news.

Well, mindful that in times of chaos, we're going to have more people experiencing this, and particularly the conscientious ones, which is the very people we don't want to get burned out because we need them, right? What can we do ⁓ to spot the early signs to prevent burning?

Anne Randerson (13:05)

One thing we can do is become a little bit more informed about it. So learning about it more, maybe reading articles, listening to podcasts, going to group sessions or whatever, just to find out more. So we can notice the signs in ourselves, in our family members and our friends and see if we can help them. There are also clinics. I know here in Brussels, there's the Burnout Clinic. So I think there's more than one. And so I'm going to approach them actually later and see maybe if I can...

use my services, but I think finding out yourself what it is, what are the signs of it, maybe how to prevent it before it comes. And once you're in it, taking it seriously too. ⁓ I have many friends actually who have gone through burnout and family members, and I wasn't sure exactly what their symptoms were a few years ago, and now I definitely know more about it. And so really informing ourselves about what it is and how we can prevent it.

John Niland (13:55)

So what are the signs we're looking for? What are the early signs that, if neglected, could result in full-scale burnout?

Anne Randerson (14:04)

Well, I think it's oftentimes focusing. I'll give you an example myself. I taught at university for 15 years. So was teaching in California at several universities at the same time and teaching in several departments at the same time and all different subjects with ⁓ hundreds of students at the same time from different cultures. And it was a lot of work. And to keep that job and to move up in my academic life, I needed to publish.

So I kept publishing and I would get up very, I got up at four in the morning to do my research to publish. It was interesting because it was on mindfulness. So here I am, a mindfulness practitioner teaching mindfulness-based stress reduction. And yet here I was getting up at four in the morning so that I could publish my work before I went to school to teach five classes and then to take a class and then teach another class and then help out at a hospital with patients as a volunteer of teaching mindfulness as well. All of that to

I realized I was very close to Mona and I couldn't stop. I really felt like the perfectionist. I think that has to do with self-worth as well. I was feeling very perfectionist. I wanted to get everything done and do it well and perfectly. And finally, I just, I had to say no. And there was a paper, it was almost done and I'd spent months on it. And there was someone in India who had asked me to write the paper for ⁓ a book and I had to tell her no. And I'd never said no on a commitment before. That's just something I don't do.

But it was that or probably end up in the hospital. So I said no. And now I'm very glad that I did, but I still feel bad about that. And that was, you know, 10 years ago.

John Niland (15:39)

You've touched on two inabilities there. One, the inability to stop. You know, I cannot stop, I can't stop. And the other, the inability to say no, that we often have, which is of course what gets us into the burnout in the first place. Why might self-worth be significant in that inability to stop and that inability to say no?

Anne Randerson (16:04)

Well, recognizing our own self-worth, we realize, well, we can say no, because actually what's most important right now is ourselves, because we can't really help others if we're not helping ourselves and staying whole and true to ourselves. So I think saying no is really important and the self-worth, this knowing that we are valuable, that we are worth something, that we are someone who contributes to society, and ⁓ it keeps us healthy. so we're able to do that.

John Niland (16:32)

Yeah, indeed. I'm thinking of my two burnouts, as you say that in the first, I was absolutely driven by the opinion of other people. So I just was working all day and all night to meet all kinds of conditions, in part driven by other people. And of course, in part driven by myself at very perfectionism you talked about. And I was off work for months. The second time I was able to call it a bit earlier.

partly because I knew the signs a little bit, but above all, perhaps because I felt that it was okay for me to go, no, I cannot do this. This is too much. So I'm really resonating with what you just said from my own personal experience. One of the things that perhaps we should focus on in the last

part of this is the other work that you do, because I know that mindfulness is part of your work. ⁓ I am still smiling, by the way, at the idea of the mindfulness researcher and teacher in the US being burned out by doing all this work on mindfulness. I love the authenticity of your experience here. But I know that's one part of your work, but it's not the only part of your work. Can you tell us a bit about the other things that you do?

Anne Randerson (17:56)

Yes, okay. Well, I'm, know, being like I said, as writer, as you know, I'm creative, I write novels, but under a different name. But I'm also here, I have a little mug here to show you. So this is evocative soul. I like mugs. So that's the name of my, so I started another business on the side, but so I've become a spiritual director. So I don't know if you know what a spiritual director is or something. Yeah.

John Niland (18:19)

Please explain.

Anne Randerson (18:21)

All right. ⁓ So I noticed that there was a lot about spirituality that I really wanted to discover more of. And so I started training to become a spiritual director to help people with their spirituality ⁓ and with their understanding of whatever spirituality is for them or religion or anything that's existential questions about why are we here or why did this person just pass away? Where did they go? These kinds of things. And so I started ⁓

doing, well, my research in Japan. So I did a PhD in Japan and a lot of it had to do with religion and spirituality. Studying the sensitivity of humans ⁓ towards nature from a religious perspective, but studying a lot of the Far Eastern religions and comparing them with Christianity. And so all of that started years and years ago, over 20 years ago. But then later, just the last few years, I decided that I wanted to help people in a spiritual way as well. So that's kind of...

Being a spiritual director means that I listen to people, I work with them, I don't offer a lot of opinions, I don't fix anything. It's really just being there holding space for them. And so that's another thing that I do.

John Niland (19:30)

Yeah, very interesting. And of course we know from history that whenever there are times of chaos, for example, after the fall of the Roman Empire and later on after the Black Death and the chaos, the Hundred Years War, et cetera, we know that almost immediately afterwards there is this growth in search for meaning, this renewed attempt to find more meaning and to find more spirituality. So it's probably no surprise.

that we are just at the dawn of the next drive in that space. I have a feeling that topic will be back again on this podcast sooner or later.

Anne Randerson (20:11)

Well, think right now it's so important and so many people are looking for this kind of just understanding more about what is happening, what is happening in this world. losing sort of the foundations of what they always thought was going to happen and that things are changing and shifting. And so it's being there, helping them. And it's lovely to have somebody listening to you, most of the time as spiritual directors. I was trained in the...

⁓ non-directive evocative way, which means that basically I don't do a lot of speaking. It's really holding the space and their speaking and just helping them find some insight or some spiritual guidance in that way. And it's a beautiful practice.

John Niland (20:53)

Well, if anyone is interested in that Anne's details will be in the show notes. Anne thanks so much for joining today, bringing both your humor as well as the many creative ways in which you work with people.

Anne Randerson (21:04)

Well, thank you, John. Thank you for having me.